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poor quality/weak construction

 
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quasar



Joined: 30 Apr 2016
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 9:02 pm    Post subject: poor quality/weak construction Reply with quote

We had AdvancedFrame kayak for 3 years and I was a huge advocate of this model because of build quality and easiness of use. Unfortunately I had to miss last season since I did not have luck with it anymore. Initially I discovered that it does not hold pressure anymore. I thought that we got some tiny hole and that patch should fix it. Using soaped water I located the hole and patched it. I thought that the problem was fixed. Next day I was ready to give it a try. When I started to pump it I heard a hissing sound. So I found another hole and patched it. Then after repeating this procedure quite a few times and patching more than a dozen times I gave up. Every time I fixed the hole the new just would develop. All these holes appeared along the seams. I know that inflatable kayaks should be pumped with care and avoid to be overpumped. Since I was the only one who pumped it and since I have a pump with pressure gauge I am confident that this kayak was never overpressured.
So given these problems I would not recommend this model/brand anymore since having weak seams would run kayak to be unrepeatable.
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JCOOLEY
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 925
Location: Benicia, CA

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting.
I have had my kayak for 9 years and I know of many who have theirs for much longer. Never had to do a repair once.

Did you have the AE1012-R AdvancedFrame 10.5 Kayak or a different one?

How was it stored?

What pump did you use to inflate and does it have a gauge on it?

What PSI did you inflate the kayak to?

Was it left out in the sun on trips?

Which seam developed the holes? Sometimes if all the air is put in one chamber instead of equally distributed as stated in the manual, it can weaken a seam.

Did you ever contact customer service regarding your issue?
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rsimpson
Site Admin


Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 198
Location: Bay Area

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sent you a PM a few days ago regarding the tube issue you are having, but have not heard back.

It sounds like the kayak was possibly inflated by putting all or most of the air into one chamber. This will typically over stress the seam because it causes one chamber to stretch and fill the entire inner tube cover. We have seen this a few times over the 15 years that we have been making this kayak. The seams are all welded and it is the tube cover that actually takes the stress when chamber 1 and 2 are filled according to the instructions. Regardless we would like to know if we can assist in getting you a replacement so you can get back out on the water.
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vesti



Joined: 10 Dec 2016
Posts: 3
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had this same issue with my 5 years old convertible and I am pretty sure I was careful enough to put equal pressure to both chambers. I rather believe the issue is caused by the poor quality of the unsupported PVC material used for the air-chambers. I had to buy eventually a replacement chamber, but as AE were running out of stock, I had no luck to paddle the convertible this season. They also seemed to imply over the phone that this type of problem is something to be expected from an old (aka 5 years old!) boat, but I am quite worried about this line of thought. After all, I and other folks were foolish enough to rely on their boats for expedition trips, and this kind of irreparable issues promises nothing good for the future.
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JCOOLEY
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 925
Location: Benicia, CA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vesti,

How are you inflating it?
Does your pump have a gauge?
When you begin the inflation process, how much air do you put in the first chamber before moving to the second chamber to complete the inflation process?
Again, I have had mine for 9 years with a lot of use. Especially getting beat up from kids using it. I have never had to repair the tube once.
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vesti



Joined: 10 Dec 2016
Posts: 3
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a pressure gauge and put about 1psi at the first chamber before moving to the second. I might have had a bad luck with my kaky, but since the issue is reccuring I am wondering whether AE consider istalling presure-release valves, as other IK builders do, in order to address the issue?
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JCOOLEY
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 925
Location: Benicia, CA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When inflating the 1st chamber, you will not get a reading on the gauge before moving to the 2nd chamber. If you are getting a reading of 1psi, then you are putting too much air into that chamber. That is then pushing the membrane, which separates the chambers, over and stretching the seam where it is connected.
When starting with the Outside #1 Chamber, you will inflate the kayak until it begins to rise off of the ground and starts to take shape. Again, there won't be a reading on the gauge at this point.
When you switch over to the Inner 2nd chamber, you will inflate until you get a reading of approximately 2-2.5 psi.

Common errors when inflating:
-Starting with Inner 2nd Chamber instead of Outer 1st Chamber.
-Inflating 1st chamber until a reading of 1psi appears on gauge
-Inflating using a pump with a gauge but the attachment is not our spring valve attachment, which screws on to the valve and pushes it open, so that you get an accurate reading. If this is the case then one may be using the 3/4" attachment that press fits into the valve. One cannot get an accurate reading if the valve is not in the open position.
-Using a compressor to inflate which can quickly over inflate the kayak
-Leaving it inflated out in the sun or leaving it inflated inside a hot garage. The direct sunlight or hot temperatures will cause the air pressure inside the tubes to continually increase until a seam gives or the tube blows out. This happens in all inflatable things.
-Pumping with a broken gauge.

On another note, this is not a recurring issue. If someone is consistently having an issue with more than one tube, then they must be doing something incorrect. AE also does not carry a lot of the replacement tubes on hand because it is one of the least ordered parts do to the infrequency of issues. The tubes have been made the same way for 15 years. Granted, every once in a while, there may be one that had a seam incorrectly welded and it made it through the initial air test to only then go out on the consumer but this is very rare and AE quickly takes care of the issue.
All kayaks are air tested for 72 hours which allows the opportunity for any issues, if any, to be spotted and corrected.
AE has installed pressure release valves on the floors now because most people inflate the floor to 2psi when it should only be at 1psi per instructions. Or when they leave it out in the sun, the floor expands and the I-Beams that run the length of the floor, separate.

You can also reach out to the AE customer service department at any time to address any concerns you may have.
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vesti



Joined: 10 Dec 2016
Posts: 3
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the useful tips. They would have been even more useful if they were put in the istruction manual Smile I take it that I have been putting too much air intially in Chamber 1. Hope I will have more luck with and longer life of the replaced tube.
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