Advanced Frame or 10' Hardshell?

AE1002(2002-2005), AE1012(2006-Present), AE1017-O(2009-Present)

Moderator: JCOOLEY

cfal
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Post by cfal » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:20 am

OK thanks JCooley. I did get a chance to look on Flickr as well as read through some of the other forums here. I noticed that some people store them in the car due to limited space at home or just to have it available when they want it. I live in New York, summer temperatures can regularly be in the 90's F so of course the car could get very hot. Is this a problem if it is folded up in its bag in the trunk?

JCOOLEY
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Post by JCOOLEY » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:30 am

Not an issue as long as when it is folded up in its bag, it is dry. If stored away wet, you risk mold and mildew forming. Here is what I usually end up doing.
After done paddling empty out any excess water sitting in the kayak.
Lay out kayak for a little bit while packing away excess gear.
Pack up kayak
When I get home, depending on how wet the kayak is, I..
1. Either just wipe it down with a towel and leave it sitting out for an hour.
2. Pull it completely apart and seperate the pieces so they can all dry individually for an hour. I then wipe out the inside of the outer shell to remove excess water and debris.
Then I pack it up once I feel like it is dry.
I know that not all people have a yard in order to dry it out so I would suggest doing it at the end of your paddle. Plan for an extra hour after paddling and bring along towels to dry it out.
This is of course unless you are taking it ight out again the next day. No need then.

J

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PJohanson
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Post by PJohanson » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:20 pm

When it comes to carrying, my friend (a male 5'9") carries his AE 10.5 over his head like a canoe. I carry my older model of a Lagoon on one shoulder. I don't like carrying the Expedition on my shoulder... it hangs funny. Also, I am a small woman and don't want a kayak on my shoulder to catch the wind and turn like a weathervane because it might twist my back.
I can carry the Lagoon inflated or in its bag, no problem. But the larger boats are uncomfortable for me to carry in the bag, so I strap them to a folding luggage roller and that works fine.
During a river camping trip, I was able to get the Expedition up onto the river bank with no problems by lifting the bow and moving it, then lifting the stern and moving it. No dragging!
I encourage large strong paddlers to be understanding if their smaller partners are needing help when carrying an inflated boat! Thanks!

NaturalPath
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Post by NaturalPath » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:16 pm

cfal wrote:OK thanks JCooley. I did get a chance to look on Flickr as well as read through some of the other forums here. I noticed that some people store them in the car due to limited space at home or just to have it available when they want it. I live in New York, summer temperatures can regularly be in the 90's F so of course the car could get very hot. Is this a problem if it is folded up in its bag in the trunk?
Just one piece of advice, as far as this goes. It's not the best idea to store the kayak in the trunk if the weather is on the colder side. I did this recently and found that the kayak was much harder to set up properly due to the fact that the PVC was very stiff and hard to manage, especially the floor tube. From now on, I will be keeping the kayak inside if it's going to get cold outside before I go on a trip.

cfal
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Post by cfal » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:54 pm

PJohanson wrote:When it comes to carrying, my friend (a male 5'9") carries his AE 10.5 over his head like a canoe. I carry my older model of a Lagoon on one shoulder. I don't like carrying the Expedition on my shoulder... it hangs funny. Also, I am a small woman and don't want a kayak on my shoulder to catch the wind and turn like a weathervane because it might twist my back.
I can carry the Lagoon inflated or in its bag, no problem. But the larger boats are uncomfortable for me to carry in the bag, so I strap them to a folding luggage roller and that works fine.
During a river camping trip, I was able to get the Expedition up onto the river bank with no problems by lifting the bow and moving it, then lifting the stern and moving it. No dragging!
I encourage large strong paddlers to be understanding if their smaller partners are needing help when carrying an inflated boat! Thanks!
Do you know the weight of the older model lagoon?

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PJohanson
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Post by PJohanson » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:47 pm

Sure, cfal. My older version of the Lagoon was only 21 pounds. The new model of Lagoon is 23 pounds... still light and easy for a small person to carry.

Into the Lagoon's bag I put my bailing pump, air pump, throw bag with 50 feet of rope, a take-apart paddle, a PFD with whistle & compass & neoprene headwarmer & SPOT emergency device. Bag still zips up -- after six years! It's easy to check as luggage on a plane. I strap it to a folding luggage roller and take it on the bus. Love how it is light and easy to carry.

cfal
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Post by cfal » Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:32 pm

PJohanson wrote:Sure, cfal. My older version of the Lagoon was only 21 pounds. The new model of Lagoon is 23 pounds... still light and easy for a small person to carry.

Into the Lagoon's bag I put my bailing pump, air pump, throw bag with 50 feet of rope, a take-apart paddle, a PFD with whistle & compass & neoprene headwarmer & SPOT emergency device. Bag still zips up -- after six years! It's easy to check as luggage on a plane. I strap it to a folding luggage roller and take it on the bus. Love how it is light and easy to carry.
That's great! You seem to do a lot with your lagoon! I was only looking at the Advanced Frame and the AF Sport because they are 10.5 feet and it was either this or a 10' hard shell. The AF is 36 pounds and the Sport only 26. The big drawback on the Sport is no spray skirt option which is a no deal for my wife. We took 36 pounds of dumbbells and put then in a bag but it was to heavy for her to carry more than a few steps 26 was doable. I don't mind carrying it for her but there are times she will go without me. Maybe I will look into the Lagoon. How do you find it tracks compared to a hard shell? Is it slow to paddle?

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PJohanson
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Post by PJohanson » Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:02 pm

I would recommend the Advanced Frame over any 10' hard shell, including my partner's Pamlico 10 footer from Wilderness Systems.
How would your wife handle a 36 pound or 40 pound suitcase on a luggage roller? I never carry my Lagoon farther than from the porch to a car trunk, about thirty yards. But I put it or my Expedition (46 pounds) on a luggage roller and cheerfully roll either kayak for half a mile with no problems.

I recommend the Lagoon for being easy to carry, and for relaxed paddling at slow speed with a short stroke. At 8 1/2 feet, it's slower than a 10 foot hard shell kayak and has less glide. When I take the Lagoon out with hard shell kayaks, my stroke is shorter and I paddle at a faster cadence than my friends.

I recommend the Advanced Frame for being a kayak with more glide that will suit small or medium sized paddlers.
I recommend the Expedition for having about as much glide as a 12 or 13 foot hardshell, and it suits paddlers from small to large size.

cfal
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Post by cfal » Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:13 pm

PJohanson wrote:I would recommend the Advanced Frame over any 10' hard shell, including my partner's Pamlico 10 footer from Wilderness Systems.
How would your wife handle a 36 pound or 40 pound suitcase on a luggage roller? I never carry my Lagoon farther than from the porch to a car trunk, about thirty yards. But I put it or my Expedition (46 pounds) on a luggage roller and cheerfully roll either kayak for half a mile with no problems.

I recommend the Lagoon for being easy to carry, and for relaxed paddling at slow speed with a short stroke. At 8 1/2 feet, it's slower than a 10 foot hard shell kayak and has less glide. When I take the Lagoon out with hard shell kayaks, my stroke is shorter and I paddle at a faster cadence than my friends.

I recommend the Advanced Frame for being a kayak with more glide that will suit small or medium sized paddlers.
I recommend the Expedition for having about as much glide as a 12 or 13 foot hardshell, and it suits paddlers from small to large size.
OK so I guess you feel the AF is a superior kayak to the Lagoon. Why do you feel it is better than a 10' hard shell? JCooley had mentioned that AE has rollers to carry the kayaks and that one could actually be stored in the kayak when you paddle. That would work. You are the first person to say that an inflatable is better than a hard shell. I am curious why you feel that way. I took out a 10' hard shell last week but obviously I can't compare it to an AF. Here on Long Island, NY I never see inflatables out on the bay.

spinsister
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af for small er people

Post by spinsister » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:10 pm

I am 5'2'' and about 112lbs and have a AF that I can carry . It's a little hard to carry in it's bag. When it is inflated I can carry it quite easily by putting on my shoulder. I think a luggage roller is a great idea for moving the bag far .

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PJohanson
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Post by PJohanson » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:28 pm

Cfal, i think these inflatables are better than a 10 foot hardshell because they are so buoyant. Most 10 foot hardshells have no bulkheads or flotation unless you've added them, like my partner did to his 10 foot Pamlico.
I like how light and portable these small inflatables are. It's just my personal taste. Strong people with a roof rack on the car will probably like a hardshell more. I certainly use my 15foot hardshell Necky Eliza at times!

cfal
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Post by cfal » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:05 pm

PJohanson: Thanks for getting back to me. So since you have both hard shells and inflatables I need to ask what do you find more difficult/time consuming? Inflating/deflating and drying the inflatables, or loading and unloading hard shells. My wife and I have limited time to kayak. With two little ones we depend on others to watch them when we go paddling. So quick set up and pack up is a plus. I am trying to weigh the time loading (to roof racks) two hard shells at home (probably 10' kayaks), unloading at the bay, reloading and then unloading again at home vs inflating at the bay, deflating at the bay and opening them up again at home (need to re-inflate?) to dry.

JimD
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Post by JimD » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:26 am

cfal wrote:PJohanson: Thanks for getting back to me. So since you have both hard shells and inflatables I need to ask what do you find more difficult/time consuming? Inflating/deflating and drying the inflatables, or loading and unloading hard shells. My wife and I have limited time to kayak. With two little ones we depend on others to watch them when we go paddling. So quick set up and pack up is a plus. I am trying to weigh the time loading (to roof racks) two hard shells at home (probably 10' kayaks), unloading at the bay, reloading and then unloading again at home vs inflating at the bay, deflating at the bay and opening them up again at home (need to re-inflate?) to dry.
Don't forget that if you can carry hardshells you can carry inflatables the same way, by pre-inflating them and carrying them there and back on the roof-rack. Tying down safely would be different, but not impossible. Looked at that way you can choose between inflatables that give you easier storage at home and the option of inflating on-site so you can remove the roof-rack. Or hardshells that have more room inside, and can be hoisted onto the rack at a whim with no inflation/preparation needed.

NaturalPath
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Post by NaturalPath » Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:47 pm

I would be hesitant to put an inflated kayak on top of a vehicle, unless it was just a short trip, due to the fact that it would probably catch a lot of sun up there, which may cause pressure problems, unless it was only partially inflated. It would sure help in drying the kayak on the way back though, wouldn't it? :lol:

cfal
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Post by cfal » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:09 pm

I agree. I would also be afraid to drive with it a high speeds as it doesn't have any real rigidity (wouldn't it just flap around). However I am only about a mile from the bay so I had considered inflating at home with an electric pump and then tying it to my roof with one of those cheap kayak tie down kits (the ones with the foam blocks only I wouldn't need the foam blocks). :) It would seem easier than doing it on the beach (especially when it gets hot).

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