6 Chambers not 7

PSI, Proper Technique, Valves etc.

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lowrider
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6 Chambers not 7

Post by lowrider » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:07 am

I have a 2004 AF1.
I read about all the different chambers on this thing but don’t have 7 chambers. Chambers 1 and 2 are the same thing.
If I try to pump up one without closing the valve on the other, the air just goes out the open valve. When I pump up the inner chamber completely, the outer chamber is also full. I am confused.
Is this supposed to be this way or do I have a serious problem?
Thank you

Pearly
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Post by Pearly » Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:18 pm

Sounds like you have popped the membrane that divides chambers 1 and 2. Not a problem as long as you don't puncture your main chamber.

If you were to cut straight through the main tube, it is like a circle cut straight down the middle. Tube 1 is on the outside and tube 2 on the inside - all the way round the yak. If you have blown the dividing membrane, you still have one tube all the way round. The idea of two chambers was that you could puncture one chamber and still float.

lowrider
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Location: Dallas TX

Post by lowrider » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:54 pm

That dose not sound good at all.

Pearly
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Post by Pearly » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:42 pm

No, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. Even if you punctured the main tube, you still wouldn't sink, due to the air in the other chambers. Just means that you couldn't paddle back to shore.

The main tubes are a tough as old boots anyway, so you should be safe enough.

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PJohanson
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Post by PJohanson » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:43 pm

Lowrider, if you're at all concerned about your kayak's chambers 1 and 2, send an e-mail note to the people at Advanced Elements. They've been giving good advice here on the forum. I've noticed also that the few people who post notes about needed repairs have said they are very happy with the repairs.

lowrider
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Location: Dallas TX

Post by lowrider » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:29 pm

I'll do that
Thanks
Even with the chamber issue I really do enjoy this boat.

lowrider
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Post by lowrider » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:52 am

I have not received a response from Advanced Element support yet.
I wanted to teach my daughter how to setup an use my AF1 because she has been eying it pretty hard. I rented one from a local Kayak rental shop and their kayak had the same issue. Both of them worked great all day. One chamber dose make it eraser to setup and deflate.
Thanks

JCOOLEY
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Post by JCOOLEY » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:12 pm

Okay, this sounds tricky but it really isn't. As Pearly stated, it could be that the membrane inside the tube has seperated from the wall so instead of having two seperate chambers, you now have just one main chamber. It isn't a problem and still works fine but I just want to go through a couple of things to make sure this is the case .
1. Completely deflate the kayak.
2. Put both chamber one and two valves into the closed inflate position.
3. Now we are going to have you test to see if the air is for sure going in one chamber valve and coming out the second chamber valve. (sometimes it seems like this because there may have been air still left in the other chamber and so when you start to inflate the other, it pushes the air out because the chambers push against each other. It is the way it works.) Inflate chamber one (the outside valve) only, until the kayak is pretty much full. Once you have done this, open up the chamber two valve (the inside valve). Put it into the deflate position. Once you have done this, if the membrane has seperated inside the main tube, then all of the air will flow out of the chamber two valve and your kayak will go completely flat.
4. If your kayak does not go completely flat and stays fairly fully inflated then the membrane seperating is not the problem. Is was more than likely what I reffered to earlier as air stillbeing in the chamber.
5. If the kayak does go completely flat, then the membrane has seperated and you are stuck with having only one chamber basically in the main tube. The reason the membrane may have seperated was due to over inflation of one chamber. The the kayak is pumped up above the recommended PSI and all of that air is put into only one chamber, it pushes the membrane over into the second chamber so far that it can tear away from the wall. It rarely happens, but it does.
6. Back to #4. If the kayak holds air with you only pumping air into one chamber, it is fine. Now we can go through the proper inflation process and how the membrane and chambers work.
7. The kayak main tube is divided by a membrane down the center of it. This membrane seperates the tube into two seperate chambers. The first chamber, inflated by the valve on the outside of the kayak, goes around the outside of the main tube. The second chamber, inflated by the valve located inside the kayak, goes around the inner portion of the main tube.
8. When getting started, make sure both valve are put into the inflate or closed position. Start with Valve #1 or the outside valve. Pump air into it until the kayak has risen half way off of the ground and has begun to take shape.
9. When you are done with that, you will have basically pumped about half the air needed, into the kayak. Now switch to the second valve or the inner valve. Pump air into it until the kayak is full. There is no need to go back to the other valve because what has happened is initially you pumped half of the air the kayak needed into the first valve and now you have pumped the second half of air needed into the second valve. You may of pumped alittle more air into one over the other but it is not that big of a deal. It doesn't need to be exactly perfect. The two chambers should now have equal air in them and the basically are pushing against each other to make a full main tube. You can pick up the kayak from either end. If it bends, folds or tacos in the middle, then there is not enough air in it and you can go back to either valve and pump more air in.
10. Now, as stated in #5, if the kayak goes completely flat after inflating the first valve and then opening the second valve, then the membrane has seperated. The main tube will still work and you only need to inflate one valve instead of both. You can continue to paddle like this or if you wanted a new tube, you can contact info@advancedelements.com. I asked customer service if he saw the email you had sent and you should be receiving a response from him today. If not, I have of course posted this here and you can also PM me.

I hope this clears up any confusion and will help solve the case of whether or not the membrane in your kayak has or has not seperated. Please let us know what you find out if you choose to test the kayak.

Jeremy
8)

lowrider
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Post by lowrider » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:03 am

Thank you for your help both with the explanation and contacting support.
I did receive a response and we are working on a fix.
As for the tests. I first noticed the problem when I kept pumping air into #1 chamber but nothing was happening. I found the #2 chamber valve open and air was coming out. There could not have been much air in it because I just took it out of the bag. When I closed the #2 chamber valve the Kayak started to take shape. Now I inflate and deflate from the #1 valve. The Kayak still works great. I am just worried that if my “Blondâ€￾ 18 year old daughter may barrows it and has a leek she may not react well.
Thank you

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PJohanson
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Post by PJohanson » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:09 am

If you're at all worried about your 18-year-old daughter and your kayak, the best thing is to get her to help you with inflating it a couple of times. Even if she doesn't go out paddling each of those times, the practise will help her feel familiar with the process.
Maybe it will feel like sports teamwork, like when parents take kids to hockey arenas or soccer fields, or kids cheer on their parents running a half marathon.
Ask her opinion about the pump you're using... is it a clamshell pumped with the foot or a doublestroke hand pump that pushes air on the pull and the push strokes? If you're a guy, your upper body strength is likely to be much more than hers, and she may prefer a style of pump that you don't like. (It's worth having two pumps, trust me.) Tell her you've decided not to get an electric pump in order to save energy and increase your exercise, because you're trying to be both "green" and "healthy."

lowrider
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Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:45 am
Location: Dallas TX

Post by lowrider » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:27 am

I'm really not that worried about her. She has a pretty good head on her shoulders, but she is a blond. The last 2 times we went out I rented another AF-1 for her. She is getting the hang of setting it up and deflating it. Just don't want her to have to deal with this problem if I can fix it. She really has a good time out there on the water. If any of you have teenagers you know that you will take any chance you can get to have them want to spend time with dear old Dad.

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