Tandom vs Single New to kayaking

Get advice on which kayak may be best for you. Compare the different models. "VS."

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miltonb
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Tandom vs Single New to kayaking

Post by miltonb » Thu May 15, 2008 11:43 am

My wife and I and another couple are looking for kayaks.

How does the tandom perform with only one person in the boat.

We will be together most of the time but from time to time I would go alone. Will be doing mostly smoth lakes and rivers.

I am looking at the dragonfly2-XC, how does the performance between the dragonfly and the advanced frame compare?

Thanks,

leckig
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Post by leckig » Sat May 24, 2008 9:16 pm

i have the convertible and I am VERY glad I did not buy the single version. I used the convertible myself most of the time and I love all the extra room I have.

The main thing is that the convertible is heavier and more difficult to transport

3-Bearss
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Post by 3-Bearss » Sun May 25, 2008 3:50 pm

I also have a convertable, mostly paddled solo but today my wife came out with me for a 5.5 kilometre lake paddle and it was awesome. It takes a little work to stay synchronized with your wife :) but a fine day.
I find is easy to handle on ocean and lakes solo, and love the ability to go tandem when needed.
Convertable = versatile and roomy ... cost, a little heavier. I am very happy with my AE Convertable! 8)

JCOOLEY
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Post by JCOOLEY » Tue May 27, 2008 9:38 am

If you are paddling the Dragonfly 2 XC solo, then you will need to sit in the rear seat. This will lift the front of the kayak a little more out of the water than if you have two people in it. To offset this effect, you will need to put some sort of ballest in the fron of the kayak to balance out the weight better. You can also put the backbone in it to help stiffen the kayak to add better performance.
The difference between the Dragonfly line up and the Advanced Frame line uip is quite a bit. The Advanced Frames have a different design which allows for better tracking, speed and overall performance.

Jeremy
8)

richardlee
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inflatable kayak for seniors

Post by richardlee » Wed May 28, 2008 3:20 pm

My wife and I are wanting to become full-time campers and have been looking at inflatable kayaks. Not very wise or farmilar with kayaking (never done). We are in early 60s and want one stable and safe, looked at the AE1007-R. I heard there is an accesory that makes the hull more stable. Any advice or suggestions would be great.

JCOOLEY
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Re: inflatable kayak for seniors

Post by JCOOLEY » Wed May 28, 2008 3:53 pm

richardlee wrote:My wife and I are wanting to become full-time campers and have been looking at inflatable kayaks. Not very wise or farmilar with kayaking (never done). We are in early 60s and want one stable and safe, looked at the AE1007-R. I heard there is an accesory that makes the hull more stable. Any advice or suggestions would be great.
Actually, the accessory that you are talking about (The Backbone) makes the hull less stable. What it does is creat more rigidity throughout the center line of the kayak also creating more of a "V" shape to the hull. This will increase the speed, tracking and overall performance of the kayak.

Jeremy
8)

Reddog1
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Post by Reddog1 » Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:45 pm

My wife and I are in our early 60s (I'm actually mid). We have a truck and slid-in camper. We tested a convertible, at the end of last season, and bought one. We have not yet had the opportunity to use our own yet, but will this summer.

I have personally talked with three people that will express "buyers remorse", in a hart beat. All three said they have absolutely no regreats on their purchase of the convertible.

My wife and I want to use ours in lakes and some rivers. For just seeing the sights and fishing. I want to carry it in my truck camper back seat or my Suzuki Samuri. It fits well in either.


Wayne

Reddog1
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Re: inflatable kayak for seniors

Post by Reddog1 » Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:49 pm

JCOOLEY wrote:... (The Backbone) makes the hull less stable.
This confuses me, "hull less stable"?


Wayne

JCOOLEY
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Re: inflatable kayak for seniors

Post by JCOOLEY » Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:23 am

Reddog1 wrote:
JCOOLEY wrote:... (The Backbone) makes the hull less stable.
This confuses me, "hull less stable"?


Wayne
The bottom of the kayak is almost flat. When you sit in it, it gets pushed down to create more of a rounded hull. When the backbone is put in it and you sit in the kayak, there is more of a pronounced line down the center of the kayak where the backbone is. The hull takes on more of a "V" shape to it.
I am not sure if you have paddled canoes with differnt hull shapes, but it is sort of like that. If you have ever paddled a canoe with more of a flat bottom, you will notice that there is more stability to it than if you paddle in one that is "V" shaped.
But with the inflatable kayaks, this only makes a small difference. The Convertible will still be very stable.

Jeremy
8)

Reddog1
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Post by Reddog1 » Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:42 pm

Actually, I have not paddled canoes with different hull shapes. Thanks for explaining.


Wayne

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PJohanson
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hull shapes

Post by PJohanson » Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:59 pm

Hull shape makes a big difference for how a kayak feels on the water!

A very flat-bottomed kayak, like the Pamlico 100, has high initial stability or primary stability. Sit in it and you can feel that it's hard to tip it over. But once you lean far enough, this kind of boat will go right upside down. It has low secondary stability when it's tilted on one edge.
A kayak with a v-shaped hull and a pronounced keel will glide farther on each stroke, and straighter, than a flat-bottomed kayak. It has lower primary stability, so as you lean you can feel it tipping more easily than a flat-bottom.
A kayak with a round-shaped hull has what is called "soft chine." Some river kayaks are made like this; they look round as a cucumber. A soft chine boat is easy to lean in, and learn to roll, and it feels "tippy." A soft chine boat may have medium to low primary stabilitiy, and it also has medium to low secondary stability.
A kayak with a "hard chine" has sides that go pretty much straight up and down, and meet the bottom of the hull at an angle. The bottom of the hull can be round or v-shaped. The hard chine means that if you lean to one side, the kayak has high secondary stability and doesn't just flip right upside down.

The Dragonfly, AdvancedFrame 10.5 and the 13 Expedition all look like they have very flat bottoms when you see the boats sitting on the ground. But when you get in, your weight makes the hull curve. If you put in a backbone, that keel makes your stroke more efficient for glide and straightness. It does make the hull a little bit more tippy. But these wide hulls have a very high primary stability and most paddlers won't even notice. I recommend practicing falling out on purpose in safe conditions anyway, just to know what tipping feels like.

Reddog1
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Post by Reddog1 » Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:55 am

PJohanson, thanks for the post.

I have less than three hours in any kayak, about two hours in a single AdvancedFrame, and one in a hard kayak. Obviously, I have no first hand knowledge, and very little (to no) general knowledge.

I bought an AE Convertable at the end of last season, and have not had the opportunity to use it. I wanted something to just paddle around in at lakes and slow moving rivers. Possibly use for fishing. We will use it to compliment our camping and 4x4 outings. The wife and I are in our 60's, in good health, but not atheletic. The wife does not swim.

With all of that said, do you think the backbone would make a real noticeable difference (paddling effort) used in tandom? Would it make a real noticeable difference used as a single?


Wayne

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PJohanson
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Post by PJohanson » Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:51 pm

Starting out in kayaking is lots of fun. Maybe you could take a beginner's class at your local kayak store or club or paddling festival. That's what my partner and I did.

Wayne, I think the backbone is not necessary for what you're describing. Some people like the added stiffness. It might make a difference for long trips where you want to paddle efficiently.

If your wife doesn't swim, make sure both of you wear PFDs (life jackets), ok? And maybe help her enjoy learning to swim a little and play in water. I think if people have fun playing in water, they aren't as scared of falling out of a boat.

Reddog1
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Post by Reddog1 » Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:53 pm

PJohanson, thanks for your post.

We have, and will wear the PFDs. We did not buy the cheapest we could find.

The biggest single challenge we have to overcome is her fear of water. She has put up with me for over 44-years, so to overcome her fear to water should not be too much to adapt to.


Wayne

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