Water pooling on deck and seeping through the zippers

AE1007-R(2005-Present), AE1004-R(2002-2004)

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SittingDuck
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Water pooling on deck and seeping through the zippers

Post by SittingDuck » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:59 pm

Water seems to pool on the deck. It's especially a problem on the front deck, as water accumulates around the zipper and seeps through. The inflatable deck-raisers don't do much good, as the deck surface is flat between them.

I think I'm going to make two slats of fibreglass or wood to wedge between the tubes under the deck so as to give it a curved slope away from the zipper; that should solve the problem. It's more of a problem on the front deck, but I think the centre deck could benefit from this as well. I've seen the frames people on here have built out of PVC piping, but I think a thin slat tensioned between the two bladders will work better and take up less space.

Overall, this kayak is great at retaining water on the deck, because of the zippers around the edge. The "waterproofing" around the zippers allows water to pool because they stick out about 1/4 of an inch above the deck, and this water eventually makes it in through the seams.

Advanced Elements, are you reading this? You might want to look at the zippers they have on waterproof motorcycle jackets. Those would allow for a smooth deck, and will be more waterproof than what's currently on the boat.

Paddling around false creek was fun today; we'll do it again tomorrow, but this boat definitely requires some work if one wants to keep dry in it.

I also think I'll definitely need a backbone before hitting some real waves; the hull flexes too much even over the small stuff. I'll buy it and spray skirts later this week, and go try the boat out with those and some slats under the deck.

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sonar
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Post by sonar » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:08 pm

Some times i have water pooling as well but have now sprayed the deck with the same waterproofer that is used to waterproof tents.

Well not so much dripping through now.

The deck lifter I first made was a thin glassfibre pole but it looked like it was going to poke through the sides of the Kayak and if i was to continue with them I would have had to sew in some sort of pocket for the ends to push into..

Flat glassfibre strips would be a better solution.

not now using deck lifters.
But when carrying a load on the front i am sure i will need something just to keep the weight off my feet / legs.
Yes the backbone is a good idea.

Timbo
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Post by Timbo » Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:03 am

Here in Holland the AE dealer has been selling RVS (stainless steel) deck frames
for some years now.
After reading this post http://www.advancedelements.com/phpBB2/ ... hlight=rvs
as wel as contact with the member who posted it , I am planning to order one for my Convertible .
This solution seems a lot stronger than pvc pipe and takes up far less room , i also like the domed deck shape.
The idea of something like fiberglass breaking and indeed poking through
or cutting the inner or outer cover whilst paddling in choppy water with
a loaded deck bag is a little worrying even though i do regularly work with
this and carbon fibre in the Windsurf branch , the trouble is that stuff is either one- piece.......or sometimes suddenly two- piece !
Good old steel should work just fine in this case.
At 50 euros each i couldnt make it myself for that , not with price of stainless rod at least 7 € per metre and no stainless wire in my mig welder.

As far as the waterproofing goes , ia have sprayed mine with 303 Fabric guard, the stuff they use on car convertible tops.
Being a , once dry ,invisible fluoropolymer teflon (non silicone) type this won`t attract dirt so easily and the water just pearls and runs off like a non stick pan.
Certainly is handy and means less drying out , if you have managed to keep the inside dry whilst paddling .
Not sure if you are using a pressure gauge , i use a separate inline type , that flexibility may be due to under inflation.
I also have the Backbone which really makes a difference , also in speed.
due to the v-hull produced .
Last edited by Timbo on Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

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sonar
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Post by sonar » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:02 am

I think the stainless steel ones are great.

There is nothing like this in the U.K that i can see.

I may have to make something like this myself.

Great post.

SittingDuck
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Post by SittingDuck » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:34 pm

I just found the perfect solution and thought I should share it with the group.

Vertical blinds! the plastic kind that are about 4" wide.
Just cut a piece to the right length so it makes a nice upward curve when wedged between the two inflatable deck risers. One could probably wrap some masking tape on the ends to protect the kayak and keep the slat in place nicely with just the right amount of friction.

These things do the job perfectly and are absolutely free if you can find a vertical blind in the garbage (or steal one slat from your office).

I'm adding one to the front deck and one to the middle deck for the dual-cockpit deck. I'm making four in all so that I can have a nicely curved solo deck too (3 slats) and have a spare.

Sometimes I amaze myself...

PS: Advanced Elements: Why no tie-downs between the two cockpits on the tandem deck (like you have on the solo deck)?
Another thing: some loops around the ege would be nice to have so one can run a rope all around the boat.

Great boat for what it is, but it needs more cargo space.

evgenk
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Post by evgenk » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:06 am

Great idea!

I was wondering the same about not having any D-rings to tie down gear in front of the rear seat and no grab line around the boat .... but I guess I'll just follow Sonar's howto and add some D-rings where needed.

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sonar
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Post by sonar » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:35 am

Grab line all around the Kayak may be a good idea for self rescue in the unlikely event of tipping over.

Yes i have been told they are hard to tip over but I managed it without to much trouble. :lol: :lol: I think it's and age thing..

JCOOLEY
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Post by JCOOLEY » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:26 am

A grab line around the kayak can prove to be deadly if one was to capsize and get tangled in it. Added weight between the cockpit openings will lower the deck and cause water to pool there.

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PJohanson
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Post by PJohanson » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:08 am

Tipping over by accident is unlikely in calm waters, but it can happen! It's a weird feeling and can be upsetting or disorienting. Don't be surprised if someone tips over, pops up to the surface and laughs like crazy, or swears, shouts, or cries.
When it comes to self-rescue in case of tipping over, I find that for my friends and me, the best thing is to practise in safe conditions. We go to a shallow beach of a sheltered lake, and take turns tipping our kayaks over. Then we try to get back into our boats. Some of us need help, depending on whether we're using hardshell kayaks or inflatable ones.

I find that when my AE inflatable kayaks are upside down (as they usually end up when I fall out on purpose), I can swim beside them and grab the handle at the bow or stern. Even though I'm a small woman, I'm strong enough to lift one end above the water. That usually lets out much of the water that's gotten inside the kayak. I can then flip the kayak right-side up. I haven't tried this with a Convertible yet and suspect I may be too small to flip it from one end while swimming. Pushing up one side of the kayak may be easier.

For getting back into the wet kayak, I crawl over the bow and crawl along till I'm over the cockpit. Wiggle one leg in, maybe both legs, then roll onto my back and sit up. If I crawl onto the stern, I crawl along till my butt's over the cockpit, sit down into the cockpit, and wiggle one leg in, then the other leg. If I try to crawl over the side, the kayak rolls.

My friends and I have only had two unexpected flips in six years of paddling together, but both times we were ok because we had practised and knew what it felt like to flip.
The water is cold year-round here. Sudden immersion can make a person gasp or even have a heart attack. Even a strong swimmer can drown. For our kayaking group, we like to be prepared for accidents.

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sonar
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Post by sonar » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:25 am

We Have just joined a local kayak club.
Re entry into a kayak is one of the items the club insists on as part of the Clubs training.

We just missed the last session.. But the club will be doing it again over the next few weeks.

I myself have tipped over and got back in the same way as PJohanson. Others find it hard or impossible to do.

The Kayak club will find a way for anybody of any ability to re enter their kayak.

so I am pleased I joined.

evgenk
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Post by evgenk » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:15 pm

D-rings I was referring to were for the double conversion deck for AF Convertible. The single conversion deck has them, but not the double deck. This definitely would be a good convenience feature.

Timbo
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Post by Timbo » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:35 pm

I think JCOOLEY is right about the deck starting to sag under the weight
of a load between the two cockpit openings .

Maybe here a simple luggage rack supported on each side bij the
main tubes , either under or fixed to the the outside would prevent this and support heavier loads than the deck material and standard built in stiffener would.

SittingDuck
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Post by SittingDuck » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:21 am

With the vertical blind slats under the deck, it can hold quite a bit of weight before sagging.

Oh, these kayaks will tip over; catching a big wave the wrong way is all that's required, and since this boat doesn't exactly turn on a dime, this is quite likely to happen if you don't limit yourself to calm lakes and rivers. Self-rescue is a necessary skill.

A couple of straps (or a mesh bag) around the inflatable footrest make a decent paddle float.

Wifey and I will be practicing this weekend.

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sonar
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Post by sonar » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:40 pm

Let me know how you get on with the self rescue.

SittingDuck
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Post by SittingDuck » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:11 pm

I'll post a new thread on the self-rescue.
I'll do it right now.

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